Breaking Green

Big Agriculture and Climate Change with GRAIN's Kartini Samon - Jakarta

September 28, 2021 Global Justice Ecology Project / Host Steve Taylor Season 1 Episode 4
Breaking Green
Big Agriculture and Climate Change with GRAIN's Kartini Samon - Jakarta
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers
Climate change threatens more catastrophic flooding, fires and even food insecurity. In response, agricultural companies are promoting what they call climate safe agriculture. But are huge agriculture companies concerned for our collective food future, or are they leveraging the very real threat of climate change to promote more industrial monocultures, genetically engineered crops and the capture of markets from smaller, independent and often indigenous farmers? 

In this episode of Breaking Green, we will talk to Kartini Samone, a GRAIN activist based in Jakarta.
 
Breaking Green is produced by Global Justice Ecology Project.
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Steve Taylor  
Welcome to breaking green, a podcast by global justice ecology project. on breaking green, we will talk with activists and experts to examine the intertwined issues of social, ecological and economic injustice. We will also explore some of the more outrageous proposals to address climate and environmental crises that are falsely being sold as green. I am your host, Steve Taylor. With radical changes to the Earth's climate threatening more catastrophic flooding, fires and even food insecurity, large agricultural companies are now promoting what they call climate safe agriculture. But are these companies really concerned for our collective food future, or are they leveraging the very real threat of climate change to promote more industrial monocultures, genetically engineered crops, and the capture of markets from smaller, independent and often indigenous farmers? With big tech like Alibaba and Amazon now jumping on the agricultural bandwagon, such proposals underscore the burden that big ag places on our planet's climate, with its reliance on refrigeration, industrial fertilizers and fuel for a huge supply chain that promises tremendous convenience at a very large cost to the planet's climate. In this episode of breaking green, we will talk with Kartini Simon, a GRAIN activist based in Jakarta. Kartini is a researcher and Asia program staff at grain, which she joined in 2013, after previously working with the Indonesian peasant movement, SPI and supporting La Via Campesina, South East and East Asia youth communication team. Kartini has a nutritionist and rural development background. She is actively involved with the peasant and rural movements in her country, and has been working on the Food and Agricultural issue for almost 15 years. She supports GRAIN's partners in Asia to implement the full breadth of brains program in the region. Kartini, thank you for joining us.

Kartini Samon  
Thank you for having me. 

Steve Taylor  
Well, before we get to grain and global warming, I wanted to ask you what, what brings you to the food sovereignty and environmental movement?

Kartini Samon 
So I studied nutritions in the university, and I did some field work at that time with the fisher folk communities, in the coastal areas around Jakarta, where I live, and it was really shocking to see also the fact that areas where these people produce the fisherfolk produce some of the best fish, you know, seafood out there, but it has the highest rate of malnutrition, in Jakarta. And among other in generals, many of the fisherfolk areas in Indonesia, have really high case of malnutrition, and hunger among children. So it was really interesting to see this inequality. For me it was it was also because I've worked on on nutrition with children for some times, and it was really sad to see, you know, those who have access to the best quality of food actually often don't have, you know, to eat that product. And it's the same in rural areas and part of rural areas of Indonesia. So you see all this product, good quality product goes elsewhere, and leaving the people who lives and work on that really bad quality of food, actually. So there's, there's this inequality of accessing food, and those who are producing it actually don't have much to, you know, for themselves to eat properly, and healthy food. That's where from there I am involved with the farmers movements for some several years, many years until now. Yeah.

Steve Taylor  
Well, that brings us to the question of big agriculture overall versus small, medium and indigenous farming. So could you give us a little bit of the landscape of what's going on with with with big agriculture overall?

Kartini Samon
in general, right now, many of you know, small scale or small food producers still maintain to produce, you know, 70, 80% of the total global food productions. So that's a huge number compared to big industrial ag. But these actually goes also to the whole supply chain of the that is being controlled by the food ag,  actually. So small food producers are very effective in producing, you know, diverse and healthy food but the the big industrial ag has really taken control and a lot of that including starting from seed. Because even small scales, they are relying a lot from external input, which is in control by the seed industries. Because it industry is now you know, four of the big global seed industrials controlled more than, you know, almost 80% of the whole sales of seeds around the world. So they have to pay, and there's a lot of regulations and policies that make small scale farmers have to buy, each  planting seasons, you know. Regulations are made to support big ag to continue growing and capturing a lot of this diversity of local and traditional diversity of seeds that are present to, for being in control of their, you know, their marketing process. So, um, farmers at the very start in the very beginning, they already rely a lot, you know, they're being captured. They have to buy seeds, they have to buy fertilizers, and that this is something that started like in Asia, it started since green revolutions in the 70s, and continued until today. And now you see, you know, big groups are promoting it, i n Africa, what's how what has been a big failure, actually, for small scale farmers in Asia and Latin America previously. So it's, it's a process that continue to maintain the control of big AG, and they are getting bigger, by merging with each others. We see that process happening a lot in the, in the last couple of years now, in the last few years. And, and that's why, you know, before you have like this top 10, they exceed industry, and now you've just only have like, Big Four, big seed industries. So they are getting bigger by merging each others. And they got, you know, policies and regulations in support for them. So farmers are really small scales are really in trouble. Because of that, even though they are being very, you know, I call it efficient in producing food, you know. They they produce more diverse food in a small plot of land that can produce healthy and nutritious food, compared to large scale of monoculture productions that big ag is controlling. And now we see you know, the type of food that we are eating is very limited, you know, the main for staple for is only like. There's a few of it, wheat, rice, corn. So it really supporting this monoculture plantations that are being, you know, being led by the big ag. So overall, that's like the challenges that we are living right now. And I think there are many initiatives. But of course, the challenges also, because the big act is getting bigger, as I said, they're merging among each others. And also they are being supported a lot by by government policies.

Steve Taylor  
So is there also the situation where we're different governments, because GRAIN is a multi national organization, but different governments support corporate initiatives through regulations? Or let's say maybe seed patenting?

Kartini Samon  
Yes, and that is very, very common. And that's growing a lot. The way seeds are being patented and through in countries are being pushed into doing so through free trade agreements. For examples, especially being pushed through free trade agreements, when they start... countries in the developing countries, for example, are being pushed into free trade agreements with US, Europe, or Australia or Japan. They are, you know, being mandatory to be to change their seed laws and regulations to allowing this seed patenting and limiting access, you know, rights of small scale farmers to even use their own seeds or exchange among each others. So they they are forced to buy every season for that and that that is happening and is spreading a lot in Asia. For examples, many countries in Indonesian right now are being pushed to join that process of changing our seed laws through trade agreements with European countries. Thailand also are facing the same thing. E ven Japan are forced to change and even create a stricter set regulations now that they're entering free trade agreements of the Pacific wide, the CPTPP, which is actually very much, forcing countries to change a lot of their their own national regulations to comply with.

Steve Taylor  
So these these changes and these pressures on the small farmers, indigenous farmers have huge cultural impacts, do they not?

Kartini Samon
Oh, yes, definitely, definitely. Because one thing, it erodes a lot of biodiversity because it's being captured by seed industries, that farmers are forced to use hybrid seeds that are being sold in package. Usually, it's so sold together with with agrochemicals to use together. And, you know, this type of seeds that are not allowed to use in for the next planting seasons. So because there's patent tied to it, so they have to buy every planting seasons. So it really changed the culture. And you see, a lot of traditional seeds are disappearing. Farmers also losing their knowledge to breed local and traditional seeds, because they are, you know, for generations now, since the 70s, to use hybrid seeds, in you know, productions. So it changed a lot of the culture and also change a lot of the the eating culture. Because I give examples of Indonesia. W e are known as, as rice eating countries, you know, we eat rice three times a day. But that's not the case before, we have really diverse staple crops. But when green revolutions happen, we are being forced, you know, farmers are being forced to change to grow only rice for staple crops. So more than 50% of the farmers in small small scale farmers, I'm talking small scale farmers in Indonesia, are now rice farmers. They only grow rice. And the type of rice is also only the white rice. Before we have diversity of red and black rice and brown rice, or, you know, different different staple crops. But that has really changed over the years. And now you know, there's only white rice. And countries also are relying on each other like Philippines and Vietnam and Thailand in Indonesia... many of the, the exporter actually controlled the trading of rice at the international market. So for examples, even countries like Indonesia and the Philippines who are rice producing countries, actually we are forced to import a huge number of rice each years because there's a quota that we have to import certain amount of rice each year. And so that that's actually affecting also the price at at this farmers level. So there's a lot of implications happening because of that.

Steve Taylor  
Could you tell us a little bit about the situation in India and the current status of the farmer protests?

Kartini Samon  
So it's been nine months now, ongoing farmers protests. We've seen some of the biggest mobilizations earlier this year, despite of the pandemic, really creating a lot of problems in the countries. But farmers are mobilizing in a big way. Because recently last year, the government's tried to change three farm laws with which actually gives a bigger price to to corporations actually, to control the Food and Agriculture market. Because in India, until now, the the food and agricultural market is still in the in the hands of the farmer adopt the you know, it's being controlled by the government. They have what called mandates the big bazaar where, you know, all this production so the farmers are being collected and then distributed to the small markets. But then the government tried to open this and allowing private sector to take control of this retail market. And and farmers are obliged to be part of the contract with with this big retailers. And there's no minimum support price, which is a big problems in many countries before and India still have it. And now the government's in India wants to cancel that minimum support price for agricultural product. And that's why farmers are protesting because they realize that what happened is the the private sector will allow to dictate the price, you know, at some point, and farmers have to accept that. You know, they don't have any other options if there's no standard of minimum price from the government. And the cost of productions already doesn't cover. And that's why you see a lot of this suicide case, because farmers are being indebted for for many years, and they don't have ways to repay it. And, and so often the head of the family will do suicide, so that the debt will be canceled. So that's really a terrible situations and it happens across across the country. And that is why the reason of changes on the three laws in India really, you know, make farmers protesting, they come, you know, to the street, they sleep in the street for weeks for months. Because, you know, they realize that's the only way. Because what if the laws are being implemented, it's just the same as, you know, suicide for them. Because they, they won't have, you know, enough support for the, you know, to support the family. So I think that is something that that really shows how big ag is taking the whole supply chain of food and ag and why farmers are really protesting even till now as we speak.

Steve Taylor  
Well, that's a horrible dimension to all of this. I mean, for people to commit suicide to enact debt cancellation, it's just, it's a horrible situation. This is your host, Steve Taylor. And we will be back right after this.

Theresa Church  
Global Justice ecology project partners with small nonprofits when a group or organization whose non for profit work closely aligns with our mission by becoming a fiscal sponsor. This helps them minimize bureaucracy so they can focus on their crucial work for ecological and social justice, forest, protection and human rights. GJEP is proud to sponsor the Center for Grassroots Organizing. The center helps organize mass social movements with space where people from different fields can spend time together, share resources, get creative and build collaborative strategies. Their purpose is to build grassroots organizing, education, training, direct action, and other efforts to help unite contemporary social movements into an effective mass movement. Each summer they hold uprise youth action camp, an amazing week of teen empowerment, creativity, action, and friendship, all while strategizing for our collective future. To learn more, go to grassroots center, dot net.

Steve Taylor  
Welcome back to breaking green. Before we get to the climate, I wanted to ask another question about big ag overall. And that's now Ah, Alibaba and Amazon are even part of this. Could you tell us a little bit about that?

Kartini Samon 
Yeah, that's the interesting thing, because, you know, now everything is digitalized. And that's the way you know, even governments are promoting you know they say digital agriculture. And, like, Amazon and Alibaba are among the first to jump into this, because they start as distribution companies, right? They provide service for online distributions. But for that, they also need to secure their supply. They need to make sure that, you know,  consumers can get whatever they want from wherever they want. So they jump into this whole process of agriculture. So before they only sell other non agricultural non Food and Agriculture products. But they see that there's a need to that, you know. It's a it's a huge market, people have to eat all the time. So and especially with the pandemic last year, we see a huge increase of their profit, because people avoid going to the supermarket or your local fresh market and turn to online shopping to buy groceries. And that's why like Alibaba and Amazon's they feel like okay, we need to be part of this and how we how we need to secure our supply. And then they realize it's not enough to do it. They also need to have a store and and that's why like Alibaba and Amazon's are among the first to actually lead to this unmanned they call it unmanned stores... where all is managed by artificial intelligence, you know. Consumers can just go and take whatever they want. And they paid directly, you know, with there's no cashiers in the stores. So that that is why also companies like Alibaba and Amazon are investing in agriculture a lot. Alibaba even have and bought a huge a dairy farm in New Zealand, not just one, but 29 dairy farms in New Zealand to secure supply of dairy to consumers in China and elsewhere, every day. So they see the need to control the entire supply chains from the production's to their warehouses. Because that means, you know, they can, you know, make promises to the consumers that you can get anything from anywhere around the world. Even some of this big retail stores, they promise like, you can get any fruits or vegetables from anywhere around the world within 48 hours. So you just click. Like, if I want, I'm sitting in Jakarta and I want something like strawberries, we just we don't grow, and we don't have it here, from anywhere that's fresh, you know, I can just choose from my, you know, my apps, and it's being delivered fresh to my door in 48 hours. That's what they're being promised. But it's not, you know, the, the whole technology and infrastructures that needed behind it, it's very big and important... because then you have to secure infrastructures. You have to secure warehouses. You have to secure packaging. And that actually, actually is  very much linked to climate.

Steve Taylor  
So that's interesting. I mean, you know, being able to order strawberries in Jakarta and have them, you know, within 48 hours is exciting from a convenience point of view. 

Kartini Samon  
Yes. 

Steve Taylor  
But as you noted, there's a huge infrastructure surrounding that. And you mentioned impacts on climate. So industrial farming, we know, produces nitrous oxide from fertilizers, you know, there's this heavy machinery, you have the refrigeration in the supplies chain, it often involves deforestation, and you have all the emissions from transportation. So we have convenience. We have these big corporations pushing small farmers into monoculture... and there have all these cultural implications. As we discussed some of the most tragic in India, though it's happening in a lot of countries. But now, it seems to be that this push towards monoculture is now part of climate safe agriculture. Could you tell us a little bit about that, and how that may be somewhat misguided?

Kartini Samon  
Yeah. In one side, you see, as you rightly said, consumers only see convenience, you know. But we live in an era of climate crisis. And actually, everyone needs to understand that there's sacrifices actually, we need to take and that's not easy for for people to understand. And that's why it continues to perpetuate this certain this cycle, you know, because then corporations coming in and claiming that, oh, we produce in the climate smart agriculture way. We are securing water and we produce better than the small... we treat the soil better than the small scale producers, but there's huge aspects of, of is that the use of agrochemicals, packagings, storing and transportations that will continue to emit greenhouse gases in a huge number, if people you know, doesn't really change the way things are being produced or consumed. You know, I think we need to realize, again that maybe we don't need to eat strawberries in Jakarta,. Or you know, we have so much other food or fresh you have we have mangoes all season, you know, or other, you know, local productions that are being produced closer to our distance, and maybe produced by, you know, in a more actually a more environmentally friendly ways than the way corporations who claims that they produce their, their food through a climate smart agriculture. Because many people especially when when before you talk about Alibaba and Amazon's many of this, many of this digital companies are promoting services that that this the technology that they said it's better for climate. Technology that says you can use sprinklers better, you know, you can manage it through your phones, the way you spread your or your pesticides. And also, many of this food industries are saying that you can even trace how the product that you bought In the supermarket are being produced in a sustainable way or not through blockchain, you know. But the energy that it's needed to even create that blockchain is a huge resources and it's heating up the planet very much so. And, you know, we need to think where our food is coming from, actually, and it's not just, you know, the way corporations are saying that, you know, we we produce with less water. We produce in a more ethical ways. But is it really that way because, you know, it's being transported from Brazil for examples through like soya being transferred from producing Brazil and sell in Indonesia 1/3 of even lower than the local price, you know, t he way it's making consumers continue to rely on their productions in that, in that way, is really, you know, we need to take into account the whole packagings the whole transportations process that are being, you know, put in place to make make that, you know, this long distributions continue. And food and ag corporations are really number one obstacles, if I may say, to achieve a meaningful actions on on climate crisis, also, because they want to continue produce in a massive way as it is now, they don't want their profit to reduce, but they coming up with all this high cost programs like net zero ambitions for examples. but they don't have the capacity to do it like Nestle, for example. They have a net zero ambitions, that actually will include the need to offset 13 mil 13 megatons of carbon dioxide a year. And that means that they have to replanting, you know, 4.4 million hectares of land every year. And where is the land, you know, whose land that they're going to use. And so they're coming up all all this time with offset, and, and communities who lives inside and around the forests in countries like Indonesia, and Brazil's and Malaysia are the ones who have to, you know, take this burden, because big ag doesn't want to reduce the way they produce or doesn't want to reduce their profit. You know, so, as you said, because this is, this is really a time that we need to think, you know, all this convenience that we have, should we continue like that, you know? Because there's an implications that, that really happening fast, and we see everywhere, you know, even in the US, you are now facing with Hurricane and, you know, floods, and we've also experienced that for years. And we're island country, Indonesia is an island countries and many of the islands, small, small islands, where are being tried to disappear with the increase of the of the sea level. So I think it's sort of a process where we need to think, our weather, you know, this part of convenience that we need to sacrifice actually.

Steve Taylor  
So big ag is pushing for these climate safe agriculture solutions to climate change. And they, you know, they're promoting genetically modified seeds and pushing these technologies, which actually, you know, pushes for more monoculture more cash crops, and that big infrastructure we were talking about, would it be more beneficial to allow indigenous cultures to do what they know how to do best sustainable local agriculture?

Kartini Samon 
Yes, because now, you see many communities are turning back to local varieties. Because especially in the middle of the climate crisis, we receive so many reports how communities, from Philippines from Thailand, from India, all the way to Africa, they also they share stories of how communities are trying to find or trying to use again local varieties because it is more drought resistance. It is more flood resistance, but not in the way that are being promoted by the seed industries because the seeds are something that been grown in the area and already, you know, have a capacity to adapt with, with the surrounding. So that's why it can survive better, when you know there's a longer longer dry season, or there's heavy rain happening in the area, and communities start really saving, you know traditionals and indigenous seeds that they see it's more sustained to the to the changing climate actually. And for examples in the Philippines farmers community they are start to mapping out different seeds of rice seeds that can resist saline water better, you know, that they can grow along the coastal areas. Because it with intrusions of sea to the area, you need seeds that sustain a higher saline water level. So communities are really trying to find ways to adapt to the changing climate. Also, for examples, as I mentioned, there's an increase pest attack over the years. And if you grow in non monoculture way, you have a better chance to survive your productions, because the past won't eat them all. Together, they might eat the rice, but you still have the corn or you might, you know, have some vegetables survived from the pest attack rather than if you grow in monoculture. And once the, you know, the pest attack, you lose everything at once. So that kind of practices actually small farmers are in many places are really start to do because they realize and they notice it is the best way to survive. Maybe like maybe if they cannot produce for the market, but they can produce for their families or for their neighbors and for you know, people who are around them. And I think and that's why I'm saying that before how we can you know, consume food with that is being grown and produced closer to us not relying so much of the global food market.

Steve Taylor  
There is a big push, as you noted by big ag with the climate safe agriculture, are you concerned that that may be a further attack on food sovereignity?

Kartini Samon  
Right now, yes, because as you see this been very dominate corporate captures in the UN system that the even at the UN level they are trying to promote green revolutions that are being used over the years and continuing to now in areas like in Africa. Because you know, corporations have ways to lobby governments have ways to lobby policymakers at an international level, to allowing them to continue the way they are producing as as now as it is now. For example, I'll give like Norway is one of the countries that seen as a champion for climate change, you know. T hey provide billions of dollars to curb devastations in many places last year, when they give 56 million US dollar to Indonesia to for maintaining the you know, the reforest stations, but they never tackled their own industries. They never questions or they never ask their industries to stop producing as it is now for one of the biggest fertilizer companies in the world Yara our own almost have it by the Norwegian government. And they are sitting in the global climate Alliance to you know, and to promote ways of of producing continue to use the climate smart agriculture that they are proposing, you know. But, as you say, as you know, like the fertilizer in agro chemicals and fertilizers have contributed so much to the greenhouse gas you know, nitrous oxides, methane and others are more part and even then carbon dioxide. But the seed industry is like Yara never questions by Norwegian companies, or the way you know, the Norwegian fishing industries are one of the biggest in the world right now and they are selling and, you know, capturing fish and selling it throughout the world. But their way of productions are never been questions, you know. But the responsibilities to protect the forests are, are now given to conservations group or others to maintain, you know, a piece of land where, you know, where forests are still intact, but driving away communities and villagers who live in that area, you know, to offset the emissions that are being produced by these industries. So, you know, in a way, it seems like the, the big Food and Ag industries continue to promote themselves as a champion of climate by promoting, you know, their own their own strategies, their own, you know, tactics to deal with climate, but never questions, the way of productions but never questions the way it's being transported throughout the world, you know. They're just offsetting the, their emissions somewhere, and asking, you know, communities to live out their, their forest areas to live out their, the land, so this, this, corporations can continue to produce as it is. So the question is, where will the the forest community we live in, where... and Meanwhile, the forest communities have been have the experience to maintain the forest for decades, you know, because they rely in the forest to live, it's not just, it's not just the point is their living space, you know. They rely on the river, they rely on the trees they rely on, on everything in the living things in the forest. And so they know that better how to protect it, because they don't want to destroy it, and they don't want to change it as to becomes you know, a tree plantations in. So big AG, are promoting this way of, of net zero, or nature based solutions. Now, they use the word nature based solutions as a way to continue producing and to continue their business as usual, while expecting others to take responsibilities of of taking care, the the problems that they cause, and and then they they promote themselves and say, Oh, we've done this, you know, nature based solutions somewhere else. So, we have the forest that captured all our emissions. But the question who owns the forest, you know, a big doesn't own the forest, and they just paid for me, they paid a certain amount of money and to continue to produce as it is, and that is not sustainable. And especially in time, like, like now, you know, we are living in through a really climate crisis. And it takes a, you know, a drastic effort to cut the productions and the emissions the way it is now. being done.

Steve Taylor  
Yes, it appears that there's very little being done about actual emissions. But there's more and more burden being shifted to the global south. I wanted to ask you about big Ag and shifting from food production to fuel production. Isn't that a bit of a concern as well?

Kartini Samon  
Well, definitely, because we've seen that over the years, actually, when, when there's the whole promotions of biofuels happening... and several countries are still using it... I think now... the way there's been a huge competitions of producing food to four fuels, the use of ethanol from corn  for examples that also impacting a lot of areas and productions in the past and until now. One of this there's the one who's that is still use a lot is the biofuels from oil palm plantations. And that really a huge problem. Because the global productions almost 90% of the global productions of oil palm only comes from two countries, Indonesia and Malaysia. So we are taking a lot of burden of producing, you know, oil, not just for food and industry, cosmetics, but now also for fuels. And so the intentions is to expand even bigger oil palm plantations, still. Indonesia now have 14 million hectares of oil palm plantations, that's a huge number. And already, you know, cutting so much of the rain forests, but the government's still intend to expand to more than 20 million Hectares in the next few years. Because of the huge demands still continue, for biofuels, from, you know, the use of vegetable oil for the industries.

Steve Taylor  
So the oil palm and the production of the oil palm that that monoculture. Is that causing deforestation?

Kartini Samon  
Oh, yes, definitely. It's it's really it's huge deforestations happening. Almost the entire rain forests in Sumatra are already gone. Now they're expanding very quickly in in Kalimantan, in Borneo, it's also almost entirely gone. And now they are targeting the new frontier in in Papa, where there's still a lot of intact rain forests. But big companies are coming in, you know, big plantations for oil palm coming in, in a very massive ways. And just 10 years, it goes from just 2 million hectares to over 20 million, you know, in that in that area. So it's just it's something that that that, you know, the the rate of deforestation from oil palm plantations is really it's really terrible.

Steve Taylor  
It seems like there's just no magic bullet that that maybe we need to look at it how much we're consuming. That's kind of what I'm taking away from this.

Kartini Samon  
Oh, definitely. Yes.

Steve Taylor  
Kartini? Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you would like to comment on for this episode?

Kartini Samon 
I think you cover a lot that you go for a lot. But I just want to one thing I want to say that, you know, we've seen the failure of, of the previous RED project that's being promoted, as, as you mentioned about the tree plantations and evictions of forest people from their area and from their territory. And now it's being repeated, again, under the same name, nature based solutions. So I just want to say that, you know, this is something that that, that big industries and corporations coming up with new names of something that's been failed for the last 15 years, because they just want to continue producing and profiting as it is now. But there's really a need to cut down all the productions and industries activities really, very quickly. So that's just an addition of, you know, it's just another name for something that's been used before. I think we need to be very cautious of giving all these new names of something that's not working in the past.

Steve Taylor  
Well, thank you Kartini for joining us.

Kartini Samon 
Thank you for having me.

Steve Taylor  
You have been listening to breaking green, the global justice ecology project podcast. Find us at Global Justice ecology project dot org. Visit to find more interviews, podcast organizations, and ideas for addressing climate change.

Breaking Green Introduction
Episode Introduction
Introduction of Kartini Samone
Kartini's Motivation
What is Big AG?
Governments Policy and Seed Patenting
Farmer Protests in India
Break with Theresa Church
Alibaba and Amazon
"Climate Safe Agriculture"
Small and Indigenous Farmers as Alternative to big AG
Big Ag and the Land Grab
Biofuels
Oil Palm and Deforestation
Rebranding of failed strategies
Breaking Green Outro